SelfGovern said:VirtuaL said:vegetation said:It's actually more of an issue if you discharge rainwater into the sewer system which most municipalities forbid. An inspector wouldn't buy the fact you're using it for your garden. One barrel wouldn't matter of course, but if you plan to string together a dozen of these, watch out.
Are sewer systems not set up to accept rainwater or something??

Sewer systems? No. That's where the water you use in your house goes... down the drain, out to the sewer system. Significant amounts of rainwater, if diverted to the sewer system, would overwhelm it, and you'd probably end up with raw (if slightly diluted!) sewage overflowing to the ground, streams, etc. Or backing up in to your house.

The holes in the curb, on the other hand, are storm drains, which are not a part of the sewer system. Storm drain water is typically unprocessed, and flows into lakes, rivers, and the ocean (so you can see why it's important not to mix the two).

In the US at least short of a flood or living below sea level (ie New Orleans) it is near impossible to overwhelm a modern sewer system regardless of the amount of fluids introduced. In fact, just the opposite is true for most local municipalities. They spend a good portiion of their budget flushing out sewer systems due to lack of fluids to deliver the solids to the processing plants so to minimuze the need for this process and to facilitate solid delivery the stormwater and sewer are NOT seperate systems once you leave streel level. Most modern municipalities interconnect the stormwater and sewer systems via a man-hole system where storm drain water flows in for the upper level of the man-hole and then down to the lower sewer grade level. According to most municipal code the sewer grade must be at least 16ft below street grade. The downside to running combined systms is that the system must be frequently cleaned out of foreign debris that enters the storm drains.

Outside the US? Well anything goes and yes unprocessed sewage does often flow into lakes, rivers, and even the ocean!

Nearly 1 billion gallons of poop into lake michigancnIsfg said:SelfGovern said:VirtuaL said:vegetation said:It's actually more of an issue if you discharge rainwater into the sewer system which most municipalities forbid. An inspector wouldn't buy the fact you're using it for your garden. One barrel wouldn't matter of course, but if you plan to string together a dozen of these, watch out.
Are sewer systems not set up to accept rainwater or something??

Sewer systems? No. That's where the water you use in your house goes... down the drain, out to the sewer system. Significant amounts of rainwater, if diverted to the sewer system, would overwhelm it, and you'd probably end up with raw (if slightly diluted!) sewage overflowing to the ground, streams, etc. Or backing up in to your house.

The holes in the curb, on the other hand, are storm drains, which are not a part of the sewer system. Storm drain water is typically unprocessed, and flows into lakes, rivers, and the ocean (so you can see why it's important not to mix the two).

In the US at least short of a flood or living below sea level (ie New Orleans) it is near impossible to overwhelm a modern sewer system regardless of the amount of fluids introduced. In fact, just the opposite is true for most local municipalities. They spend a good portiion of their budget flushing out sewer systems due to lack of fluids to deliver the solids to the processing plants so to minimuze the need for this process and to facilitate solid delivery the stormwater and sewer are NOT seperate systems once you leave streel level. Most modern municipalities interconnect the stormwater and sewer systems via a man-hole system where storm drain water flows in for the upper level of the man-hole and then down to the lower sewer grade level. According to most municipal code the sewer grade must be at least 16ft below street grade. The downside to running combined systms is that the system must be frequently cleaned out of foreign debris that enters the storm drains.

Outside the US? Well anything goes and yes unprocessed sewage does often flow into lakes, rivers, and even the ocean!

Wrong.

Here in milwaukee, they have combined sewer and rain lines. (they are soo 'smart')

so in recent storms we dumbed

michal1980 said:

Wrong.

Here in milwaukee, they have combined sewer and rain lines. (they are soo 'smart')

so in recent storms we dumbed

Storm drains in many cities empty into sewers. It's a problem when there are heavy rains, because if treatment plants can't handle the load, they have to dump raw untreated sewage back into the environment (usually the local river).

The issue in areas where collecting rainwater is illegal is not that local government wants people to pay for water, it's that they want rain water to end up in rivers so it can be sold to neighboring agricultural states where there are water shortages.

Water policy in many places it severely messed up. I used to live in a city where all the municipal water came from a major river, yet every time there was a drought, the water board would make it illegal to wash cars or water grass, as if somehow the river was going to dry up. Water that doesn't get used from the river ultimately ends up in the ocean, so I don't see what the harm is in siphoning it off for whatever use.

If you REALLY want to beat sewer charges on water used on your lawn, the best option is to have a sub meter installed for your outside lines so that sewer charges can be deducted for water that doesn't ultimately have to get processed at the treatment plant.

vegetation said:zeddgara said:Not that it matters much but you don't own the water that falls on your property, unless of course it damages someone else's property (government logic at work)! But there have been many instances of city/counties forcing homeowners to remove water collection devices on their property because essentially your removing that water from the general collection system. Enforcement probably depends on how green freak your neighbors and local government are though, but you should be aware of the local laws regarding rain collection use.

It's actually more of an issue if you discharge rainwater into the sewer system which most municipalities forbid. An inspector wouldn't buy the fact you're using it for your garden. One barrel wouldn't matter of course, but if you plan to string together a dozen of these, watch out.

Why would your barrel rainwater go into the sewer any more than the original rainwater did? It falls from the sky into your barrel, goes into your lawn or garden and then into the water table or down the street like it would have originally. I can't imagine someone dumping rain barrel water into the sewer system.

I have 2 rain barrels and you do not need a pump. Each barrel has a spigot on the bottom for filling watering cans or connecting a hose. The water does not shoot out, but does flow nicely from the hose. Each rain fills the barrels past capacity. You can also take the top off a homemade barrel, and dip the water out. We no longer use city water for the garden. I think rain water is better anyway, sometimes the city water stinks when they chlorinate it.

They are simple to make and connect if you have gutters. It costs less than $20 to make one and sometimes less if you can get the barrel for free from the recyclers. Ours are made from empty Pepsi and Mountain Dew syrup barrels, water smelled good for the first few times. Sit it up on some concrete blocks for gravity to do its thing and so you can get a bucket under the spigot.

btw, you can paint the white plastic barrels anyway you want so they are not so ugly.

hream said:To me, it's less about the break-even point and more about being environmentally friendly. Saving water is a good thing regardless of whether it shows up in your wallet!

I've been looking for a nice barrel for a year and I can't say that I've ever seen one like this. Has anyone seen this in person to comment on how realistic it looks?

Consider the fuel that is burned to make the plastic rain barrel and transport it to your house.

I had something (not shaped like a rock) that I got some time ago. Here is my review

1) these hold a moderate amount of rain. in a rainstorm its coming out of everwhere. but I had a fairly large roof
2) mine was to use the water to water the small tomato garden I keep. worked great at first but leaves and stuff started to effect it. You have to make sure you clean it out each year and if you have alot of tree maybe more often.
3) you have to bring it in during the winter. again this was definately a different model so. I finally got tired of it and left it out and it cracked. the sun really had an effect on the finish after a few summers

All in all, I found that when I needed water in the reserve there was none or little, and when I didnt need water it was full. Its not worth it

Go big!
In some areas (Austin Tx and probably others) you can even get rebates to offset the costs.

Edit to add:
Link to City of Austin 300 gallon+ rebate program.
and
Link to City of Austin Rain barrel rebate info.

michal1980 said:Nearly 1 billion gallons of poop into lake michigancnIsfg said:SelfGovern said:VirtuaL said:vegetation said:It's actually more of an issue if you discharge rainwater into the sewer system which most municipalities forbid. An inspector wouldn't buy the fact you're using it for your garden. One barrel wouldn't matter of course, but if you plan to string together a dozen of these, watch out.
Are sewer systems not set up to accept rainwater or something??

Sewer systems? No. That's where the water you use in your house goes... down the drain, out to the sewer system. Significant amounts of rainwater, if diverted to the sewer system, would overwhelm it, and you'd probably end up with raw (if slightly diluted!) sewage overflowing to the ground, streams, etc. Or backing up in to your house.

The holes in the curb, on the other hand, are storm drains, which are not a part of the sewer system. Storm drain water is typically unprocessed, and flows into lakes, rivers, and the ocean (so you can see why it's important not to mix the two).

In the US at least short of a flood or living below sea level (ie New Orleans) it is near impossible to overwhelm a modern sewer system regardless of the amount of fluids introduced. In fact, just the opposite is true for most local municipalities. They spend a good portiion of their budget flushing out sewer systems due to lack of fluids to deliver the solids to the processing plants so to minimuze the need for this process and to facilitate solid delivery the stormwater and sewer are NOT seperate systems once you leave streel level. Most modern municipalities interconnect the stormwater and sewer systems via a man-hole system where storm drain water flows in for the upper level of the man-hole and then down to the lower sewer grade level. According to most municipal code the sewer grade must be at least 16ft below street grade. The downside to running combined systms is that the system must be frequently cleaned out of foreign debris that enters the storm drains.

Outside the US? Well anything goes and yes unprocessed sewage does often flow into lakes, rivers, and even the ocean!

Wrong.

Here in milwaukee, they have combined sewer and rain lines. (they are soo 'smart')

so in recent storms we dumbed

Uh wrong how? Perhaps you need to re-read what I posted and the the article YOU linked. I stated ....In the US at least short of a flood or living below sea level (ie New Orleans) it is near impossible to overwhelm a modern sewer system regardless of the amount of fluids introduced.....

The article you linked clearly stated they received 13+ inches of rain in just under 3 hours. What is YOUR definition of a flood?

adam-i-am said:VirtuaL said: Are sewer systems not set up to accept rainwater or something??

Forget the fact that it would take thousands of garbage cans filled with water being emptied into the municipal sewer system at the same time for it to tax the system. Some municipalities use the same pipes for both sewage and rain water like the Boston Water and Sewer Commission. But most newer systems (in the last century) utilize two separate systems. One that only collects rain watter via gutters and one that collects sewage via sewer lines. So the simple answer to your question is... It depends on where you live.

Actually it really does not depend on where you live at least in terms of which municipality and totally separate systems are nearly always confined to low population suburban areas where ground water runoff is mandated to stay within the immediate area. This is usually due to extensive grading that significantly changes the original watershed. For example, a local ordinance requiring a water retention pond for a new shopping center or the curb and gutter system draining directly into a local lake or river from a new subdivision plan.
As far as the original context of the argument concerning some municipalities regulating runoff in to sewers and not allow private collections nearly all municipalities in the last 100 years, including Boston, use separate sewer/storm water systems at street level. However once collected they combine underground and are delivered through a central system. If it were not for storm water discharge being introduced in to the municipal sewer systems your municipal sewer bill would be 10X its current rate. Despite popular belief "chit" does not always float! It and other foreign matter commonly flushed these days requires great amounts of fluids to "travel" through the system to their destination. In some extreme cases main sewer systems are even pressurized through a series of lift stations to ensure a speedy and proper delivery of the product to its destination.